I would like some help regarding shoulder mill cutters. I am in the midst of selecting something for our shop.
Considering the following products:
Seco Square T4
Seco XOMX
Kyocera MEW - 4 edge insert
Kyocera MFWN - 6 edge shoulder mill
Korloy rich mill RM4
Sandvik R390
Sandvik R490 (4edge square insert)
Reps of all the above are pretty decent.
Any idea on tool life of the above products, are they pretty similar? Anyone done some tests already.
FYI - Application - Steel- 18-22hrc. Cutting on manual milling machines small to large (7hp to 30hp)
Thanks in advance. I am planning to keep products from 2 compabies in our shop.
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tool life is related to feeds and speeds and most importantly tool length stickout amount and tool holder length and part rigidity of what you mill
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in general insert cutters that take bigger and thicker inserts tend to be able to take bigger depth and width of cut at higher feeds and speeds but big carbide inserts cost more. i often see little carbide inserts break apart and especially loose corners if overloaded.
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i keep excel file on all feeds and speeds on standard tools setup to tight specs in particular tool length and tool stickout amount. all sudden tool failures are recorded. for example same 4" dia facemill can cut very good at 550 sfpm at 54 ipm feed at 0.150 doc and 3" width passes BUT if slot milling or full width cutting and milling not rigid parts the vibration might require slowing to 300 sfpm at 20 ipm feed (talking milling cast iron class 40)
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milling steel usually tool life is 60-120 minutes. obviously the harder you push it the shorter the tool life. finish cutters taking light cuts often last over 120 minutes. milling steel at 400 to 900 sfpm obviously sfpm has a effect on tool life. i usually mill steel at 600-800 sfpm
Way biased here, because I work for Seco, so I'm going to suggest our products (of course.)
The Square-T4 cutters are really nice, and I started using these in the 8mm size before I took my current job with Seco. They're very capable cutters, and nice & free cutting too. The only downside to these cutters, is that you can't ramp with them. It has to do with limitations for clearance on the bottom of the insert, that doesn't allow them to ramp. This isn't exclusive to us - many of the Tangential 4-sided inserts also cannot ramp for the very same design/clearance issues.
I still think our TurboMills are the best of their kind, and will wipe the floor with the competition,
(sounds like salesman talk I know,) but mainly because of our grade technology, but I also think they're a little more robust because of how our wipers are designed on the bottom of the insert.
(Smooth chamfer from the wiper-flat to the inner side-wall, as opposed to many others who have a wiper flat just "hanging" down there with little support.) We have an overwhelming choice of grades, edge-preps, corner radii, and so on.
("Classic" grades for low-alloys steels & stainless, some badass CVD coated grades for high-performance in steels, dedicated grades for hard-milling, and even uncoated/polished & PCD inserts for aluminum...)
There's "newer" technology - mainly the tangential style cutters - but the Turbomills are still badass, and still hard to beat.
All of our milling cutter bodies are milled from pre-hardened stock, to final geometry
(no post-machining heat-treat, so now thermal drift) and are caoted with a Nickle-Phosphor coating that's 70hrc too, so the bodies themselves are of great quality too.
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If you're close at all to greater Detroit, stop by our HQ in Troy, MI, and ask for a tour. We make a lot of our custom tools there, and even some standards too - our Square-6 cutters being on.
(A very nice 6-sided square-shoulder mill...)
Way biased here, because I work for Seco, so I'm going to suggest our products (of course.)
The Square-T4 cutters are really nice, and I started using these in the 8mm size before I took my current job with Seco. They're very capable cutters, and nice & free cutting too. The only downside to these cutters, is that you can't ramp with them. It has to do with limitations for clearance on the bottom of the insert, that doesn't allow them to ramp. This isn't exclusive to us - many of the Tangential 4-sided inserts also cannot ramp for the very same design/clearance issues.
I still think our TurboMills are the best of their kind, and will wipe the floor with the competition, (sounds like salesman talk I know,) but mainly because of our grade technology, but I also think they're a little more robust because of how our wipers are designed on the bottom of the insert. (Smooth chamfer from the wiper-flat to the inner side-wall, as opposed to many others who have a wiper flat just "hanging" down there with little support.) We have an overwhelming choice of grades, edge-preps, corner radii, and so on.
("Classic" grades for low-alloys steels & stainless, some badass CVD coated grades for high-performance in steels, dedicated grades for hard-milling, and even uncoated/polished & PCD inserts for aluminum...)
There's "newer" technology - mainly the tangential style cutters - but the Turbomills are still badass, and still hard to beat.
All of our milling cutter bodies are milled from pre-hardened stock, to final geometry (no post-machining heat-treat, so now thermal drift) and are caoted with a Nickle-Phosphor coating that's 70hrc too, so the bodies themselves are of great quality too.
----- ----- ----- ----- -----
If you're close at all to greater Detroit, stop by our HQ in Troy, MI, and ask for a tour. We make a lot of our custom tools there, and even some standards too - our Square-6 cutters being on. (A very nice 6-sided square-shoulder mill...)
I really enjoy following the SECO guys on instagram and their nice cutters made on hermles
Considering the following products:
Seco Square T4
Seco XOMX...
Forgive me for sounding like a commercial for a minute, but since you originally asked about these, I hope this will be helpful in some way...
(And for the record, I won't make a penny if you did in-face buy Seco, just to get that out of the way...)
I was playing with today's UPS shipment, when I remembered that I had these two cutters in the trunk of my car, so here's a quick photo-compare...
Picture #1 Shows a quick side-by-side of the of the two cutters with the inserts removed & screws in. The Square-T408 is on the left. It's the 4-sided, tangential cutter with an 8mm depth-of-cut. The Turbo-12, 2-sided is on the right.
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With the screws removed, to show more of the pocket.
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With the inserts mounted.
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View #4 shows them from the side. The Turbo-mill has lots of axial-clearance for steep ramping.
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View #5 shows the inserts from head-on. Here, you can see the lack of clearance on the Square-T4 cutter, as it has almost no "dish" clearance on the inserts - toward the center of the body, as opposed to the Turbo-mill. This is pretty consistent of other tangential cutters, and is their biggest draw-back probably. Trying to fit 4 reversible cutting edges on the insert, while creating this "dish" clearance becomes increasingly difficult. I'd say it's *possible* but you would have to position the insert so oddly to gain clearance for the opposite-facing wiper-flat, that it would be very difficult to create the needed clearances, and still have a nice helix-angle on the actual cutting edge.
So the compromise, is that in order to have a 4-sided tangential insert with good cutting geometry, you give up ramping ability.
The Turbo-Mill on the other hand has all kinds of this "dish" clearance.
(For lack of better/correct terms.) One thing that I think makes our inserts better than the competition, is the way we transition away from the wiper-flat. As you can see from this view, there is a nice long tapered edge away from the wiper flat, as where many of the competition will have the wiper flat sitting proud of the rest of the insert. This might be a minor difference, but I think it probably *has* to make some difference...
I hope all that helps. If I could have only one indexable square-shoulder mill, it would be the Turbomill for sure. It's more versatile, and it's still a very good performer. If I could have more than one, I'd get both, and use the Sqaure-T4 90% of the time. Lower cost per edge, and I'd get the "fine-pitch" version so that I could get an extra flute, and gain more feed/rev...
Shoulder milling is a basic milling application in which a tool simultaneously creates a plane and shoulder surface. Square shoulder mills have traditionally had a cutting edge angle of 90°. Having the exact right angle is important to avoid offsets between the individual milling paths. Indexable and solid carbide tools are both suitable for shoulder milling. Each tool has its own advantages.
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Machine performance, component geometry and surface requirements are just a few of the main criteria when it comes to choosing the right tool. Because the milling bodies can be reused, indexable milling cutters are less expensive, also in terms of lower follow-up costs. Solid carbide milling cutters are the ideal choice for applications that require greater precision and higher surface quality.
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