I'm a novice hobby machinist and love the idea of using 5c collets for work holding, especially since most of my machining is on smaller aluminum parts. I have a 12x36 lathe (gg).
I recently bought a unreviewed collet chuck on eBay but returned it as runout was at about .002, run out on my 3jaw is less than .001, my spindle runout is . or less.
My question is- should I reorder a collet chuck (but better quality) or can I get away with a using a 5c collet block in a 4 jaw chuck? I would love a collet closer but I don't think they're available for the gg and I don't think I can machine one having never used one before.
Any advise is much appreciated.
Depends heavily on what you are doing. One of the biggest advantages with collets is rapid changes for production work (even if it's just a matter of making six matching screws), for instance. They also provide even pressure all the way around the part, which is very helpful for minimizing flex and thereby inaccuracies in your workpieces. And, probably their best-known advantage is a high degree of repeatable placement, assuming you're using a quality set. But many people do just fine without them. It comes down to how you want to work. A collet block in a 4-jaw has the potential to be as accurate as a collet chuck, but it will be FAR more time consuming if you're trying to use it often. If you need it 3x per year it will work great.
This thread should be in the Grizzly sub-forum. I wouldn't go with the block in a chuck. I've not seen a collet closer for the GG yet. You could make a drawbar and closer, get a Bison collet chuck or a Jacobs collet chuck for their rubber flex type of collets. Actually, I now remember saving a thread from another forum about a collet drawtube for the G, which has the same spindle as the GG, only the GG is drilled and tapped for a spider at the outboard side. You can get the needed parts for the G collet closer from Grizzly and make your own setup. You'd need these parts from Grizzly: P collet adapter and P draw tube. The collet pin (G) should be part of the x001 part so you don't need to buy that separately. To keep the tube centered in the spindle get the P hub adapter or you'd need to turn your own sleeves. Oh, John/JGedde had posted on H-M here about his closer for his G.
Ask yourself what advantages a collet chuck has over a 3 jaw scroll chuck.
Accuracy, yes
Speed, yes with a closer, if you make hundreds of the same part per day, they are intended for production work
Do you need to hold finished parts say for a second operation without leaving jaw marks on them, yes
Versatility, no a scroll or 4 jaw chuck will hold a vastly larger range of shapes and sizes, however hex, square and machinable 5C collets are available (emergency collet).
As a hobbyist do you want to buy another collet every time you need to turn a different sized material
The best compromise for low production work that I know of is an adjustable 3 jaw and a supply of soft jaws.
For example
Pocketed soft jaws for holding thin parts for facing
Pocketed pie jaws for holding large very thin parts that are prone to chatter, these are 12" in diameter on an 8" chuck
If you look at factory specifications on different chucks, they usually give you the run out (TIR) specifications. I have tried multiple 5C non adjustable chucks, most of them had pretty bad TIR, this is an issue if you are holding a part that needs to be turned true relative to the held end of the part. So it is hit or miss if you get one that is in the range of 0.002-0.004 TIR. I also tried a D1-4 ER collet that had about a 0.002 TIR. The only way you will be able to do any better is to get a Set-Tru (Tue-Set) type of chuck, and even with this the reproducability with different size collets will probably be around 0.001". There have been a number of posts regarding the pros and cons of the 5C and ER collet systems. You can also make a speed handle for the key which speeds things up. I use the 5C for holding small work, works very well, but it has a very narrow clamping range and the collets can get very costly. I do use the ER collets on my mill, I plan on making a set-tru type of ER collet for the lathe, this allows for a wider clamping range for odd size stock.
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/5c-collet-sets-budget-sizes./#post-
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/thre...-for-bison-5c-collet-chuck./#post-
This is a reasonable priced one that I have used before, the price has gone up about 20% in the last year.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/5C-TRU-SET-LATHE-COLLET-CHUCK-D1-4-MOUNT-FREE-SHIPPING-IN-US/
Like the title says has anyone tried it? The price is pretty good but is it a decent chuck? What sort of runout did you get?
I'll pay 4 times the price for a bison one if I have to but I really don't want to. I'm only interested in 5C options because I just picked up a set of Lyndex 5C collets. 1/16" to 1 1/8" in 1/16" steps.
Normally, I would vote for the accusize. But maybe not this time.
Unlike other chucks that can be trued, there isn't a great deal the average user could do to true a 5C Collet Chuck short of using a toolpost grinder very carefully. The chuck is the center of the universe.
I have a bison 5c that I absolutely love. It lives on my lathe more than all the other chucks I have combined.
If it ever died, I'd go get another one in a heart beat.
Without ever trying the accusize, I'd still vote to save your looneys and toonies to buy the Bison.
If you do get the accusize, get it on amazon. That way it is zero pain to return it. It's easy to check it.
You true it by moving the chuck on the backplate, just like any other plate mounted chuck. Leave a bit of wiggle room on the locating boss on the mounting plate. Tippy-tap into submission and tighten the bolts. Of course the backplate is trued first.
I bought mine from All Industrial in excited states because it came with the correct backplate for my King . Stopped fiddling when I got to 0. runout.
Hmmmm...... I don't believe my bison has a backplate. I could easily be mistaken but looking at the Accusize 5C on line and zooming in on the photos does not "appear" to show one either. There are no screws on the back and although there are a few holes in the front, they don't appear to be for a backplate. Accusize also describes the chuck as being an integrated design. But I guess it's a question that @Upnorth could ask of Accusize. Or maybe if someone who has one could chime in as per Upnorth's original request.
If it does have a backplate and if the register isn't too solid, that would certainly work.
My Bison was only a few tenths right out of the box. I have loved it since the day I first installed it.
Do a forum search here on 5C, the topic comes up a lot. Clough42 also did a recent review of his Asian import. Some have been satisfied, others not so. Also depends on what you are trying to achieve & condition of your machine. Accusize imports/distributes Chinese tooling but whether they are selective to various Chinese manufacturers I cant say. It may or may mot be any better than others, its difficult to compare. The consensus seems to be that their return policy seems to be OK, shipping back at your expense wouldn't be horrible, they are in Canada, so there's that.
FWIW my direct mount D1-4 new Bison 5C ~15 years ago had ~0." runout. I sold it when a good deal presented on a Set-Tru model which can be dialed in. But Bison prices have gone through the roof. There are import versions of Set-Tru now which might be worth considering, but no personal experience. Gator line is dimensionally the same as Bison but ~80% quality IMO based on scroll chucks I have & price wise are more than regular Chinese, not as commonly distributed
strangely, better Bison prices than in Kanuckistan all fees & expenses in
based on my R8 collet experience. I would consider these guys for collets (mentioning this to others, your Lyndex are top shelf keepers)
Personally I have been pleased with Accusize, but I realize some ppl are more risk averse. Buying from Amazon for me doesn't inspire any additional confidence except perhaps ease of return.
It isn't just the returns. Amazon also makes the delivery FAST, painless, and free if you have prime. Sometimes they even sell Accusize products at lower cost than Accusize.
What I like best about the Accusize Amazon partnership (if you can call it that) is that you can order from Amazon and then call Accusize directly if something isn't right. They have ALWAYS looked after me.
Given that the lathe is a 13x40, it should have a spindle bore big enough to take a MT->5C adapter and skip the chuck altogether.
I've never tried this option for any collet system yet, but I do think about it often since I have ER 32, 24, & 11 collet systems for my mill.
The nice thing about the 5C Collet Chuck is that it doesn't need a draw bar and can handle long stock that extends into the spindle. But not everyone needs or wants that.
It isn't just the returns. Amazon also makes the delivery FAST, painless, and free if you have prime. Sometimes they even sell Accusize products at lower cost than Accusize.
What I like best about the Accusize Amazon partnership (if you can call it that) is that you can order from Amazon and then call Accusize directly if something isn't right. They have ALWAYS looked after me.
Turns out that Amazon returns, both Prime & otherwise, is kind of a fluid situation lately & often region specific. A few months back a return involved printing a label. Option 1: pickup from yor home via Intelcom or whomever your normal delivery mode is. The catch: you must be there in person to sign it over and (the crappy part) be available within a 12 hour window or however they word it. Not great for people who work. Option 2) print a label to return ship. This used to be Canada Post of which there are typically many outlets. But Amazon fired CP & now uses Purolator. Of which there are fewer & less convenient drop locations & business hours. In other regions of Canada, maybe where couriers are more sparse, I've heard its still CP. So maybe depends.
Turns out in Calgary the Staples locations that have a shipping desk are now the Amazon courier return depots of choice. Still a personal drive though. I just did it the other day & it was relatively painless. It cost me $6.85 return fee because mistake was mine, ordered wrong item. Weight/size it was a pair of pliers essentially to give you a reference & destination was Amazon center in Calgary. If it was something real heavy, I wonder if it would be a lot more.
Accusize I believe has an Amazon 'store' which (I think) is a bit different than normal fulfillment sellers & why some of these Accusize-specific advantages work. Also costs of returns may well be a function of defective or missing parts or shipping damage from the drop down, vs 'I don't like it'.
Yes, they do. And you might be right about that affecting the outcomes and choices.
FWIW, I call accusize themselves. For all I know that might be same folks as the ones at the amazon store. But my sense is that they are different. For whatever reason, it works fine for me.
It is the same store. I bought one from Amazon, free shipping of course, ordered the wrong lathe mount on it, call them directly and they did and exchange at there office no problem. Have to say I enjoy dealing with them, and their is approx Leslie and Hwy 7 so its within east driving distance being in the GTA myself.
Just be aware that some of the stuff they sell as final sale may be a second, but then again if you can fix its a bargain.